A Q&A on Love, Spiritual living and much more...

Many questions came to us, thank you for that. Keep on sending them, we love to hear from you and what is on your mind. We could not answer all of them, so we selected a few and will adress the others in an other episode. 

That being said, this time we talk about what is love? The thing we al want and try to understand in our daily lives. How can we weave spirituality into our daily hassels?
And much more...

Transcript

Nathalie: 
So welcome. Today, me and Anouk are gonna answer the questions you have asked us. And, , so I give the word to Anouk today. 

Anouk: 
Yes. So there are many questions. I think we need multiple podcasts to answer them all. Quite some interesting questions as well. And we start off, with questions from my own sister, actually.

Yeah. She asked two questions, which I think are very interesting. The first question is, what is love? 

Nathalie: 
What is love? It's a big question. You have this song in the 80s. What is love?

Anouk: 
Baby don't hurt me. Or I want to know what love is. 

Nathalie: 
Oh yeah, we always talk about love, but actually we don't understand love at all. That's, for, when we start answering the question, 

Anouk: 
exactly, because her second question was a more practical earthly question in a way, which was how can you unite the more spiritual things in your life together with doing the dishes or groceries or more the practical way of living and are these two separate or can you unite them?

Nathalie: 
Well, actually, love is something that permeates everything, love is always everywhere, but it's always the thing that we search for in our lives. So when we meet someone, we fall in love with this person, but the only thing this person does is that it shows ourselves our true light, our true being.

This is what we see in the eyes of the other. And if the other doesn't want to be in the relationship anymore, for example, then the pain comes. We believe that this person is the only one that can give us, grant us love actually, and not give us love, but grant us love. And the more we realize that it's actually that love.

The other one was just the mirror. The eyes are the mirror of the, the light reflecting you, the love that is inside yoU. But love is actually, they say, the binding force of the universe. So without love, there is no life. So you and I, we both did psychology a long time ago. You had , in social psychology, that book about, those sad little monkeys, the attachment theory.

Yeah, Bolby and then you had this, wired, doll with nothing and the monkey would try to, to find some warmth and love. 

Anouk: 
Yeah, the monkey would choose the robot with a soft fur over the robot with no fur with a bottle of milk. 

Nathalie: 
Yeah. So the first thing we choose is love and then we choose food. Exactly. Yeah. So sometimes people tell me, I don't have much to give to a child I said the child. First of all, it needs love. 

Anouk: 
And Yeah. Yeah. Sorry, it pops in my mind because, when I was thinking about this monkey, I was also looking for comfort and kind of safety. So how does the feeling of also the word belonging comes up so many different concepts, but can you. Also elaborate on love and regarding to finding a , safe place or safety.

Nathalie: 
Well, actually love is all those things when it is truly from the heart, because most people don't know how to love someone else because they want something. And love is something that is free. And, that holds onto everything. So when you have a mother that is capable of caring, because love and caring are very close to each other, , then you feel nurtured, then you feel safe and then you grow up most of the times, depending on the rest of the things that can go wrong.

Anouk: 
It's like an evil laugh. things that can go wrong.

Nathalie: 
Many things can go wrong, but what is wrong? You know, what is wrong? 

Anouk: 
That's where your laughter came from? Yeah. What is wrong? What is wrong? But what is love? What is wrong? 

Nathalie: 
Yeah. When your mother or your father, because if there is not a mother, but a father that can do the same, then a child grows up with confidence and with trust.

And these are the most important things. So love is Has to do with trust, that you trust yourself, that you trust the world, that you know, and then we make a jump, um, and it's actually also connected to intuition, that you know that you are safe, that you can find ways to keep yourself safe, because people that have lacked love in their life in the start, , most of them always end up in horrible situations.

Because in a way they cannot sense what is right and what is wrong. And safety indeed. Yes. They feel the unsafety. They don't. Yeah. So they cannot make the distinction between this is going right. I don't want to, or this is going the way I really would want to, which would be good for me. And it all starts with when we, are in the belly of the mother.

Well, actually it starts before we are conceived 

Anouk: 
and the belly is also sweet in the womb,

Nathalie: 
in the womb. Yeah. But love is more, this is just a part of love of being a human. Mm. But sometimes, I don't know if you know that feeling, but I can have that sometimes and say, Oh, I love everything. I love the world.

I don't know. It feels like I'm flying. And when you meet someone, this is actually in a way their purpose for that moment in your life that they show yourself that this grand love is inside of you. And the only thing you need to do, is to face yourself. Only thing. Huh? Yeah. 

Anouk: 
Yeah. Small detail. Yeah. 

Nathalie: 
Just a minor thing. The only thing. 

Anouk: And then everything is solved. 

Nathalie: You clearly don't live in this world. So but, but it actually is true. When we face ourselves. Then we find true love. 

Anouk: 
And is it facing yourself that almost sounds like it's a monster you have to face? Or is it if you have to meet yourself or feel yourself or?

Nathalie: 
Well actually one of my friends asked me a question. Does hell really exist? Yeah. And it has to do with this. Yeah. So, in way, there are also other things, but that's for an all other podcast. But apart is that you have to face, also the dark side of yourself. And for that you need bravery and trust actually that you will get through it. So I can say this, everything that ends up in your life, , if you face it, we'll bring you forward. But truly most of the times we really don't want to face the shit that is happening. But when we do, there's always this moment what I know for myself, and I think, you know, that too, that, everything is falling apart And you 

are like my god. And then something happens and you say but actually it doenst matter it doesn't matter because i know who i am. I know who I am. And inside me, there's always the love. Ooh, we're going to jump to another question.

So another question was, of another friend and also a friend of Anouk is that how you can stay connected to your heart actually. And it is easy when everything is flowing in your life. Then we're like, Oh, I feel love. Everything is good. But this is not the challenge. The challenge comes when things start to fall apart.

Can you, feel that sense of trust, not knowing when it will end or will it ever end ? But I always have this really, easy practice. So you put your hand on your heart, on your chest bone. And sometimes I tell people, you stay there for. Um, maybe five minutes or maybe an hour or two, or you have to do it days in a row.

Anouk: 
But finally in the end you will find yourself again. So it is always about, centering yourself again, bringing yourself back to the center because when you do that, then everything that is happening around you is happening around you. 

There's some distance.

Nathalie: 
Yeah. But most of the times when things start to fall apart, we become what we, what is going around us. And with, centering yourself, putting your hand on your heart or on your belly, or I also listen to certain songs I use a lot. They center myself again. And then I think, you know what? I was thinking of a friend of mine who would say, Oh, Natalie, but you have this beautiful house. And you have all those things in your life.

You should be grateful. This is what he would say, would he tell me. And then like today, the sun is shining. There's so many beautiful things. It's not that you get away of the things that are not working out, but you start to see the whole picture. And this is what it is about. Because when we see the whole picture, we embrace everything.

And then we find love 

Anouk: 
and ourselves in a way.

Nathalie: 
Yeah when we find ourselves, we find love and we find love. We find ourselves intertwined. Very intertwined. Do you want to more about love and you want to go to the second question? 

Anouk: 
Oh, well, there's so many things you already, there are many questions also popping in my mind to elaborate a bit on more. I think one thing that I wanted to stress is something beautiful. You said about trust, that it's really hard to gain trust if you don't have, An experience where this is being tested in a way, right? 

Nathalie: 
Yeah, this reminds me of someone that, works for the court and she told me that, um, she works with juveniles and, uh, she said, When they have a person they can lean on most of the times it happens once and they never will come back.

But if they don't have anyone around him that they can trust, then they will end up in the system and it will never leave until they will never leave that part until they find someone that they can trust. So, their sense of trust is so uh, not broken, not scattered, but scarred that they keep on walking the same loop.

For people that had, grown up in situations that you could not trust anyone. It's, not, that you cannot find love, but it is more difficult. It's truly more difficult. 

Anouk: 
And in a way, that trust also requires some courage and courageous because you have to step over something. In a way, you have to search a little bit for unsafety, but not too much, right? Yeah. It is. Yeah. It's fine. Fine balance. 

Nathalie: 
It's a fine balance. Yeah. And sometimes people come to me and they have, what is attachment issues, huh? Many people. Many people, but some don't have it at all. Then I'm really surprised, but most have it, some have severe, real severe.

And, I always tell them, but you know, it can never change if you don't, if you are afraid to move, if you don't dare to move, it will always be like this. Do you want that? Even that it is uncomfortable, this feeling, feeling that if you love someone that they might go away. So this question about love, it most of the times is, , this pooling of each other.

I stay with me. Don't leave me. Oh, don't hang on me too much. Oh, it's suffocating me. You know, this, this dance, this dance. Yeah. Wow. It reminds me of the. The cranes, I think they're called cranes.

Anouk: 
Could be, well, it's birds dancing together, right?

Nathalie: 
Well, I don't know if you have ever seen it. And if you haven't seen it, just look it up because 

Anouk: 
maybe we can put a clip in the show notes. 

Nathalie: 
Oh, I can do that. Yes, I can do that because, oh, this is an amazing dance. They dance around each other, but they can also flip backwards. So they have this beautiful dance again, but it is in harmony. And when there is love in someone's life in the beginning, they're on top of the world. Then they feel like they, they fell into the dark abyss because then they get scared because love might leave me. Yeah. Yeah. And then hopefully both of them find a way to dance with each other because being in a relationship of finding love, even if it is with your children is the same.

It's always, you have to tune in where the other person is and where you are today. And when you know where you are, then you know what you can bring. Yeah. But what you're capable of that day. So most of the times, it's interesting because then we jump to the next one, most of the times we are not aware of where we are today and then we go into the world and strange things happen, but most of the time that has to do with that you are not connected with you, who you are at that moment.

And also what I talked about with the hand on the heart, on the chest bone, not on the heart. I always put it on the chest bone. It's a different feeling. You just try it. 

Anouk: 
Yeah. I think it's good. Sorry to pause you, but could you maybe explain what's the difference between putting your hand on your heart or your chest bone?

Nathalie: 
When you put your hand on your heart, you connect to the physical, but when you put your hand on the chest bone, you connect the physical and the spiritual all together. 

Anouk: 
And it's also more in the center, right? 

Nathalie: 
Yeah. And in the, and true. And in the East, they always do, for example, Namaste, they do the hands for the heart.

Anouk:
Namaste. for the heart or chest bone? 

Nathalie: 
For the chest bone. Yeah. But for me, that's, I call it the heart. But also in other traditions. So also when you, really want to say something to someone in most traditions, they put a hand on the chest bone and they bow, for example, or they, , put another gesture with it.

So In a way, we all know this is our core, but we get distracted by doing the dishes, taking care of the children, bringing our bicycle to the bike shop for repairs. 

So, , to make it the spiritual an daily practice is, to make yourself aware. So with everything you do, there is a moment that you can say to yourself, okay, but now I'm doing the dishes like Buddhist monks with everything they do.

There is their attention 

Anouk: 
or presence in a way, 

Nathalie: 
but it's more, I don't know, but presence follows attention. It comes afterwards because first we need to be attentive and then we become present. So, but when, they are doing the things, but also when you are doing the dishes, you can think, Oh my God, this one of my, the other friend, he always, then he tells me, said, okay, I did the dishes.

I said, and I said, yeah, it took me hours. I was like, why are you making it so hard for yourself? It's also with the laundry. Most people don't like hanging up the laundry and we have all those resistance to all those little chores we have during the day.

And I also noticed it with myself. And then sometimes I need to laugh about it and why are you so caught up with doing the next thing, ? So the spiritual practice is actually to be aware of where you are, to be attentive And it is a moment, you can think of it as, it's a stupid thing I need to do, but it is a moment that you have the time to be with yourself, to be with your own thoughts. to feel how the water is going over your hands, the warmth, everything. You can see it as an awful thing you need to do, but it is something, , that can bring you back to yourself, not only the dishes, also with, working with other people, going to your work. You can see that if you, that you get disconnected from who you truly are, but then you didn't bring yourself totally that day.

So it starts with before you start the day, is that you, connect to yourself and from that you walk into the world and then you get distracted. You go on the train, you hear all those people talking and then you have to remind yourself, okay, where am I? Okay. I'm sitting on this chair. Ah. And the moment you do, you breathe because you relax.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And with that, you see the world, you start to see the world differently. So it is not hard. It just needs practice. Yes. And we don't all need to be on the top of a hill, meditating or have a job that is in the spiritual. No, because Yeah, where would we end up if we would all be, uh, sitting on top of the hill? Then the whole, , purpose of being on this world, would be over. Then we don't have to be here anymore. 

Anouk: 
Exactly. I also think it's nice to link it again to trust. You need to move around or you need to be experiencing things. You cannot build trust by just sitting on your meditation cushion.

Nathalie: 
No. So, I did the Vipassana many years ago, yeah, and in the beginning I found it really hard because 

Anouk:
Which is a ten day meditation retreat, right? 

Nathalie: 
Yeah, ten day meditation, silent meditation retreat. Silent even, yeah, no, no. Silent, and you're not allowed to read, listen to music, nothing, nothing, nothing.

So, nothing. You're not, yeah, silent, you're not allowed to talk to others. 

Anouk: 
Fair enough. Silence was also a topic, but we can get there later. Vipassana. 

Nathalie: 
And, in the beginning I had so much resistance. I was in Brazil, Brazil is so beautiful and, and I was like, I'm wasting my time. I'm wasting my time. I'm wasting my time. And then slowly the mind started to throw all those crazy things, but I got more into myself, more into myself, more into myself, , and then became really quiet. And I think about in the seventh day or something, then. the mind stopped blabbing. Most of the time there was nothing anymore.

And I noticed how many different shade of greens there actually was because we were in the rainforest and all the animals and all the insects, everything. And then I got back into the world and I found this silence and I could not function anymore. So and then it started because when you are going on this road, you will notice that some things are not for you anymore.

Most people say, yeah, I would love to have a life dedicated to the spiritual Yeah. Do you truly want it? Or do you want to enjoy this world where you are? Or do you want to enjoy bits and pieces of both? You came here to experience what it was to totally lose yourself, find yourself again, be somewhere in the middle, then totally don't know where you are anymore.

We're like this ping pong balls. And then sometimes you just go straight ahead and then you jump, but every time we jump and it's not to make you sad, but it's to realize you leave a lot behind. You gain, but things that most people will not understand. 

Anouk: 
And it's also in the beginning hard to grasp what you gain because it's, 

Nathalie: 
yeah, you see what you have lost.

Anouk: 
Exactly. That, that's something, you know, 

Nathalie: 
that's something, you know, but the other feelings still evolving. It's still evolving. 

Anouk: 
Yeah. When you were talking, I was also thinking about growth, that in a way you have to connect to yourself all the time, but in a way yourself, it's not a constant thing. It evolves, but in a way it's constant.

The presence is a constant, but yet there is growth. But maybe that's for another podcast, but that's just a question that popped up. 

Nathalie: 
So, so ask me again. I got distracted. 

Anouk: 
Yeah. Okay. With other words. I think many of the spiritual things and maybe also why people listen to this podcast is to be connected to yourself, feel the love, feel the bigger picture, but that assumes that this presence is like a constant.

That's a, you're being so to say, but in a way we're also here To grow, to experience, to deepen ourselves, which suggests that it is a changing thing. 

Nathalie: 
Well, the present is always there and, 

Anouk: 
The presence of yourself or the present moment? 

Nathalie: 
The presence of yourself, both. And the present moment is also always here but the field of the presence can grow.

And that's why we need to grow in life. 

Anouk: 
And can the field of the present grow, or are you growing into realizing how, endless this field is, or does it actually grow?

Nathalie: 
That is a really funny question, actually, because it's both. Yes, it is both.

Anouk: 
I realize that, but, in a way it's a contradiction that it's both. It is. And it is both. It is both.

Nathalie: 
in the beginning, this growth is inside you and then it goes beyond your field and then you realize. What? I was always this. 

Anouk: 
Yes. Yes, that's it. It's so funny. And yet it, you do feel as you grow older at least, I turned 41 yesterday, was my birthday, that there is a deepening, but it's indeed, yeah, sorry, I got a bit distracted, but indeed it's a deepening and a growing and yet realizing who you were in the first place without you.

Nathalie: 
Yeah. Actually, for most, this is the purpose of life. But you also have others that just want to, wow, enjoy this world. Let them. Yes. Let them. It's not bad. This is what they wanted to do. 

Anouk: 
Sometimes I also can get a bit annoyed with all spiritual people, including myself sometimes. It also has something self centered to really want to self develop and self grow and self. There's some judgment on people who don't. in a way like there's like people can have like spiritual egos feeling better. 

Nathalie: 
It's not that you're better. You're you just have a different purpose. You just have a different purpose. And I talked about it in one of the other podcasts. I said, we don't know what those people bring to the world by doing what they truly love. Their love inside them expands. So maybe they are doing a better job than all the spiritual people all day. Yeah. We don't know.

No, we don't know. And there was something else that I wanted to say, but I don't know anymore. 

Anouk: 
For me that we don't know. Elicit the question you before we started this podcast, you mentioned this beautiful sentence. Oh, it's in Dutch. Yeah. So you have, I don't know if you're. It is about knowing.

Nathalie: 
Yeah, I have it here. I, yesterday, the spirits were talking about the mind's eye, the mind's eye and they said to me in Dutch, Kracht is weten, voorbij het weten, dat we weten, which in English would be like force is knowing. Knowing that we know that we know, yeah,

actually it is beyond, knowing that we know, yes, that is it, , and it actually links 

Anouk: 
power is knowing beyond the knowing of what we know, yeah, 

Nathalie: 
and when you were talking, when I was talking about this present that grows because we grow. And then we go out of our field and we realized that we were everything all together. This is what this is about. This is knowing. . 

Anouk: 
And yet by knowing you trust because you know, but there's also beyond knowing. So you grow. 

Nathalie: 
But when we know then the concepts of trust and surrender and, unity it doesn't matter at all anymore, because you understand when we come to this point, the eye's mind actually.

Most people think, yeah, 

Anouk: 
I'm also a bit confused. 

Nathalie: 
Yeah. It's not like the ajna Chakra. It's not, you know? Yeah, yeah. But it is not. It will blow your mind. This is an interesting, sentence, actually, because this is also this, the mind's eye, it will blow your mind. I mean, for me, when it blows my mind, I get out of my head and it pops open.

Yeah. Bursts open. And it is with this also. And, our intuition, our third eye, for example. It's partly connected to it, but partly 

Anouk: 
also because when you mentioned intuition, you mentioned the third eye, but I also, for me, intuition also comes almost from more sacral belly energy of moving around.

Nathalie: 
Then it's more connected to the world here. 

Anouk: 
So you have intuition at two spots in a way. 

Nathalie: 
We have intuition at many more spots. It just depends what needs to be done. 

Anouk: 
But intuition in the third eye is more just knowing intuition. And then from the belly, it's more the life force in a way.

Nathalie: 
Yeah, it's more the feeling. Yes. But more the feelings connected with emotions, you know? . So they are more connected to the body and to this world. Yes, I see. And the other one is like you tap into the library. 

Anouk: 
Yes. And the mind's eye for you is like the.

Nathalie: 
Goes beyond..

Anouk: 
For me, the mind's eye feels like quite focused, but in a very endless space you can focus.

Nathalie: 
That's why they also gave me the other sentence. Exactly. Knowing. Beyond. Knowing that you know.. It's something we cannot grasp and we do understand. 

Anouk: 
Which is also, but people have difficulties explaining their intuition. They just know. 

Nathalie: 
They just know. Yes. One of my friends, she's not. You would not say that she's spiritual, but she knows. And she always says to me, Natalie, I just know, I say, yeah, I know you tell me something and later on I, it happens. She just knows, but she's not spiritual at all, but she has a strong intuition.

So someone else asked me that so that you didn't need to be connected to the universe. Well, she's not connected. Yeah. Well, in a way she is connected, but she's not someone that pursues that interest. She just knows. 

Anouk: 
So how, so we're talking about spiritual and I think we all have a gist, but how would you define spiritual? Is that you're more consciously meditate and do things with it? Or what is actually spiritual? Because I agree that a person who knows. is also spiritual. 

Nathalie: 
When we talk about spiritual, we always talk about our connection to the universe. Feeling unified, something bigger than we are. But also when people are religious, they are spiritual because they believe in something greater than themselves. But even if someone is not religious or spiritual, they can believe that There is something bigger. Even, people that don't believe in anything, the fact that they don't believe in anything is also big.

You understand? 

Anouk: 
Yes, but I'm also still a bit confused because then it's almost like a spiritual thing is believing in something or whether or even believing in nothing. But spiritual, it's a word we quickly use, right? But maybe we all have different things. I think being spiritual or doing groceries, it's almost like it's a dichotomy.

Nathalie: 
If we would define it like this, spiritual is that you understand that you are a spirit and a body and they belong together. This is spiritual. 

Anouk: 
And indeed you can have a spiritual life, so to say, if you are also interested in your spirit and how that. 

Nathalie: 
Yeah. But we all, we are all spirits in a body 

Anouk: 
and we're all in a way spiritual.

Nathalie: 
And in that way we are all spiritual. But some pursue the spiritual path. That's a different thing. That means that, your interest or attachment to this world, um, you start to work with them because you want to open up to something that is bigger than you. And in religious it is the same. 

Anouk: 
Sorry, another question. How would you then make the distinction between the word spirit and soul? Oh, it's all words. I know. And they try. 

Nathalie: No, no, it's okay. I'm just.

Anouk: 
Because we also have a soul and a body. So in that sense, spirit, we have a spirit and a body links, especially in the ritual or the religious sense. They're a bit more intertwined, but they're like separate. 

Nathalie: 
No, I don't know if they are separate. I think the spirit and the soul are just interchangeable in a way. Yes. We're interchangeable worlds. Some talk about spirit, others talk about soul. The thing is, I noticed when I talk about spirit, in a way people can handle it better than when you talk about soul.

Anouk: 
For me, it's, I don't know, for me soul is almost like beyond lives, but more colored and the spirit is almost like the spark of life in a way. It's like the life spark.

Nathalie: 
Well, Not everything of someone always, comes into the body because we had so many lives. You could say, the soul is the one that decides which part of you, needs to develop more in your life. And that is the spark, I guess you talk about the spirit that comes into the body.

And then. If you mastered a couple of things, then sometimes new things come in, but for some, the soul takes the place of the spirit. And that's why I say in a way, they are interchangeable.

Anouk: 
I'm also thinking about the Dutch words. We, I think in English, you have different, the lexicon of English is also way more elaborate than Dutch, right?

Nathalie: 
If we talk about a spirit, in Dutch it would be like, a ghost. Yeah, so ghost, yeah. So it has a whole different meaning. A genie, actually, . A genie in a bottle. . But they have bad connotations, and, then you notice that in English more often that you, the words are much better suited.

Anouk: 
Yeah. I agree. Yeah. And then another word. Sorry, my brain is being so in this associative field, but we're talking about soul, spirit, but you also let me ask the spirits. Yeah. Yeah. So what are those? Who are those? You have guides and spirits. 

Nathalie: 
Guides, spirits, and counselors. 

Anouk: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Oh, wow. You have a whole.

Nathalie: 
Ooh, the spirits. The spirits. They tell me we have been you in many lifetimes. Yes. That's what I wasn't. They are your spirits. They are my spirit. Yes. We have been you in many lifetimes. But when I work with someone, my spirits meet yours. Yes. It's like they, they sit around the table and chat with each other. Yes. You know, they explain what their problem is and then my spirits tell me, you know, you need to go there, you need to do this, you need to do that.

But it goes very quickly. And sometimes I see it, that the spirits of the other one come and that they start talking to mine. But, the spirits are me in different lifetimes. 

Anouk: 
And then the guides and counselors, you mentioned them yourself. 

Nathalie: 
The guides. Yeah.

Anouk: 
They're more for more people, potentially, right? 

Nathalie: 
Well, some are, and some are not. Some guides are always with you. They decided not to get into a body, but, accompany, accompany me, blow up. 

Anouk: 
But can your guide also be my guide in a way, I think? 

Nathalie: 
No. No. not, not those ones, the ones that decided that they wanted to be with you, in your life are yours.

Anouk: 
All right. Because sometimes people ask for the power of the energy of Maria Magdalena or that's different. That's different 

Nathalie: 
because when you talk about the, um, I call them, always the masters, you know, when you talk about the masters male or female or whatever., They are for everyone. They are not for one. They are for everyone. 

Anouk: 
So for me, the guides are a bit related to that, but that's different again. 

Nathalie: 
And you have guides that accompany you always, that are always with you. But if you go beyond a certain threshold, then sometimes they change because you have reached a certain level.

Anouk: 
And it can be a new guide. And how are guides and spirits different?

Nathalie: 
Spirits bring you knowledge from other lives. 

Anouk: 
Spirits are sort of bits of your soul and guides are different, are not guides, but they're not built from your energy. 

Nathalie: 
Exactly. So they could have chosen an own life, but they did not.So they chose to be with you or with me. 

Anouk: 
So, can, some people talk about spirit babies, that you always sometimes carry

Nathalie: 
the way you said it. That sounded like a judgment. Let's talk about spirit babies. 

Anouk: 
Fair enough. I'm not too judgmental about the spirit baby.

Nathalie: 
Okay. Ask me, ask me. 

Anouk: 
So some people say that they can already feel the soul of their child. Along with them. So would you, they call that spirit babies, and you know, you don't know whether your child will actually be born in this world, so could, how, could your child be a guide in a way? 

Nathalie: 
Yeah. I have one, client, that one of her guides became one of her children. And I told her, and then she said that she did, I don't know, she went for a session somewhere else, and she saw it. Hmm. So afterwards she told me, yeah, I did see that. So nice. It happens.

Anouk: I want to also continue, but I also feel a bit we're drifting off too much topic, but we still have to discuss the counselors.

Nathalie: 
The counselors.

Anouk: 
But well, it feels like your whole council spirit and councils and guides, almost like a separate podcast in a way, topic wise. 

Nathalie: 
We will, we'll talk a little bit about the counselors. The counselors are, connected to the Library of Knowledge. Hmm. Those are the counselors and they can be many different. some have lived in this world, others have not. Some have never been, a body, for example, in one way or another. And, everything we know is in the library of knowledge, so when we talk about the mind's eye and you said it feels like something very far, this is how you could see it in a way.

Anouk: 
And does every human being have a counselor or can connect to it? For me, they feel more, no, that's how I feel it. 

Nathalie: 
It depends what your purpose is in your life. 

Anouk: 
Exactly. Like not every human being has counselors in a way. 

Nathalie: 
Not every human being. We have counselors. Everyone has, it's so funny.

Anouk: 
Spirits. Everyone has guides earthly me thinking, what are we talking about? But in this moment, it so resonates. It's so funny, . And then tomorrow I go to work behind my laptop as a scientist and I'm, yeah, I recorded a podcast yesterday about spirits and counselors and .

Nathalie: 
But it makes, it also makes it fun because, yes, I. I like to talk about those things. I always do. At least I would talk about it all day, but I also go for a coffee and then I meet my former, boxing teacher and we talk about, all other things. Then we come back into this world because this is also us. Yeah. 

Anouk: 
Well, and I think I can round it up a bit. I don't know, time wise, but I started studying psychology because I wanted to know what love is. First question. And I think many things can be proven with science, like attachment theory, but actually love has never been really captured and we all know it's there. 

Nathalie: 
The thing is, we all know love, even when you grew up in a place where there was lack of it, but we are all touched about something that is in our environment. Some people that had parents that could not take care of them, find love in an animal or, like to draw or love to be in nature, this is also love.

Everything that touches us, small or big. It has to do with love because when you cannot be touched by anything in the outside world anymore, you die. Most people don't die of sickness. They die because of lack of love. Amen. And I'm not religious. Aho.. Nurture yourself by everything that makes you smile because when we smile, 

When you truly smile, your whole body feels it. And even if there's not much to smile about, there's always something that still touches you because otherwise you would have left this world.

Next time, me and Disha will talk about the art of listening, what it truly means to listen to someone else, and how it makes you feel when someone is truly listening to you, for this is a true connection. But how easily we get distracted and in a way impatient and want to tell the other our own story.

But the listening is more than Two people talking to each other, it's communication on all levels, energy, frequency, sound, everything that makes a wave reaches us, but more about that in our next episode. If you are interested in a Conscious Expansion Program, you can find a link below. To learn more about this program and perhaps you feel the invitation to join, let us know.